well gee gee, talk about stuck on oneself

[revengel2]

Originally Posted by revengel2
So instead of removing his post, you removed the server?

I see how it is, tyranny at its best?

"Who watches the watchers?"

Nope.

You got your own server removed for attempting to run an sql injection.
Whether or not you had real intent or not, we don't take too kindly to those who attempt to hack our server.

And repeatedly violating the reviews area rules.

Admins or staff posting in the review area will cause their server to be deleted.





Originally Posted by revengel2
i guess I will be forced to either take this over your head, or have you remove this review from our server.

I guess your action, now makes this an idle threat.

To be 100% honest, yes, i did ATTEMPT a SQL injection, for about an entire 15 or 20 mins (not 100% sure) simply b/c I noticed an error in your script. I was just attempting to find out how bad it really was, and if it was bad enough to seriously hurt or cripple the server, report it. When I failed to get through, I determined that my skills where not up to par, and thus stopped.

Secondly, I have pm'd you numerous times about "reviews" from "players" that made an account just for the review, and never ever once bothered to log back in, as a personal attack on the old server owner. I asked politely and professionally for you to remove the blatantly obvious false "reviews". Never once did you ever reply. Never once did you tell me "No, I am sorry, I can't do that." You simply delete my replies to the "reviews" which where nothing more than a 100% honest attempt to negate damage to the server, rather than have the server reputation tarnished because of someone that was not associated with the server any more. Specifically the one saying he got 270+ viruii from our server, when there is no virus anywhere in our system.

All it would have taken was 5 minutes from you to ask me, email me, anything, to follow up as i suggested in my reply to the "review". Instead you simply delete my response. Fine, I broke the rules. But when I mentioned it in the game server, and two players independantly decid to do something about it, you remove the entire server from the listing. And I am going to CC this to the website admin as citing a perfect example of why he should at least poke his head over your shoulder every once ina while just to make sure things are handled in a profession manner and not like some 14 year old kid with his new power tripping toy.

Idle threat? I think not.


Aslo, as a side note, if you are going to qoute me, don't try to quote me out of context.

Well, as you seem to be deleteing my response to

"WOW after spending 2 hours to download and install the necessary client and "UPDATER" for this server. I just spent the last 2 hours removing all the ADWARE/SPYWARE/TROJANS and DOWNLOADERS it installed.

DO NOT PLAY HERE. I ran a SCAN before I installed this "AUTO UPDATER" and after I noticed my system all MESSED UP, MY SCAN FOUND 270+ INFECTIONS! I DID NOTHING EXCEPT INSTALL THIS SERVERS "AUTO UPDATER" . All I can say is if this server owner is that greedy, about money. I can only imagine how the servers are..


If you want 200+ counts of ADWARE/SPYWARE/DESKTOP HIJACKERS/DOWNLOADERS/TROJANS! PLAY HERE!!

If not go elsewhere.


Thats pathetic howard.... I wonder how old (or young) you are... WOW

L2R for the spyware..."

Which is a flat out lie, i guess I will be forced to either take this over your head, or have you remove this review from our server.

(Notice there was the word either in there, suggesting I was leaving the choice up to you.)

My response to this was
(This is not a 100% accurate quote as i did not screenshot or save it)

There is not a virus anywhere in our server setup. There is a CUSTOM encryption routine in the client in order to block botters, which is SOMETIMES flagged as a virus, but in fact is not. I think phear3d (the person making the flat out false "review") has a personal grudge against the server's old owner, who passed the mantle on back in april. Which if you bothered to read the server listings new, he would know.


I also did some independent digging, this person is the exact same person as Jajaja, who did nothing but post "reviews" of a personally slanderish nature of the server OWNER, and not a review of the server itself.

So you tell me, What else did you expect when you treat a server owner with this kind of disrespect and unprofessionalism?


(as a side note, if you would like to know how to fix the sql inject, and possibly other ideas to make this system a bit more professional as far as these kinds of things are concerned, feel free to pm me either here on the forum, or by email. I am not out to destroy anyone, just that server owners have no options for protecting against blantanty false accusations in the review section.)

[Zodd]

I have been playing on Lineage II Revenge server since 1 year now. I can honestly contradict the statements made by the 'random' person who went on a bashing spree against L2Revenge server on the reviews area. It was pretty apparent it was due to some personal issues he had with the ex-owner of the server Howard.

There are no viruses whatsoever in L2R installer/patches if downloaded from the official website. He should have probably thought twice before visiting warez/porn websites while waiting on the L2Revenge installer to have finished. Such a pity how some people go so far as to trying to discourage other people from even getting the chance to try out the few very good lineage 2 private servers left out there in the community by posting obvious lies. Posting negative opinions about the server is one thing, everyone is entitled to their opinion and tastes varies from person to person and hence not all can be satisfied. But lying about things is not acceptable.

Again as a loyal L2R player, I was slightly disappointed on how HopZone moderators here attempted to deal with a situation like this. Had the moderators of HopZone replied to our L2R admin's PMs, the L2R admin would not have seen himself/herself forced to post in the reviews section (hence being in minor questionable violation of one of your rule) in order to request the 'obvious lie' post being removed as it was tarnishing the L2R perceived image in the eyes of the general community.

So please I am requesting on the behalf of players from my entire clan which plays L2R server to kindly re-approve the listing of L2Revenge server on your reputed gaming network and lets hope nothing like this has to ever happen again.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I registered an account just to get things solved here. I will be checking back frequently hoping for there to have been a favourable change for L2Revenge server.

[hopzone]

to be frankly i don't like SQL injectors. it's a low quality hack attempt.

And revengel2 don't tell me that if you would have found a problem from that injection you would have reported it ... in ~ 4 years of running HZ i can count on one hand fingers who reported a security breach

turning back to the problem ... kadar has full moderation/administration rights on HZ on all sections, he knows what is happening in the lists i don't interfeere with his decisions.

to be honest posts from users like this :
P.S. I registered an account just to get things solved here. I will be checking back frequently hoping for there to have been a favourable change for L2Revenge server.
are not counting at all for real HZ users



i repeat this to you as i repeated to others: we run HZ after some rules if you break them you are out no matter who you are or what have you done.
- Admins or staff posting in the review area will cause their server to be deleted.
This is a rule that we take very much in consideration as it's not fair play to make bad review for your concurent servers just to make your look better (we can catck everybody that does this and belive me we delete their server)


And I am going to CC this to the website admin as citing a perfect example of why he should at least poke his head over your shoulder every once ina while just to make sure things are handled in a profession manner and not like some 14 year old kid with his new power tripping toy.
- belive me , we do act professional but only with professionals ... it's something i respect you if you respect me



as an ending : i want you to keep in mind that (although there are errors on HZ) we keep track of every move a visitor does from the moment he enters in the site.

[revengel2]

Actually, I would have, having designed a system myself that was exposed to sql injection. It is actually a very simple fix, If you are using php, I could fix it with one function call, if you are using ASP.NET, i could fix it with two. Not even the need for a major system overhaul, could sinple put it right in line with the sql statement itself.

Now with that being said, I do agree, it is a very low level attempt at hacking, however, I personally did not try to damage the site in any manner, I did some very simple tests to see if the commands could be passed along. If I was a really vengeful person, I would simply go tell a few people that I know about this that love to exploit holes like this just for fun and watch the "ants go crazy" (to quote one of them).

All it would have taken is one message, email, ANYTHING from kadar to avoid all of this mess, up until know, i have acted in a 100% professional manner, I attempted to debunk the slander against the server by changing the website news pointing out that a new owner was now in control of the server. I changed the server description to point out that 99% of bad reviews where either from people that did not bother to conact the staff, or where personally slanderish in nature due to personal problems with the previous server owner, and had nothing what-so-ever to do with the server itself. It is my understanding that the review section is supposed to be a review of the server, not a place for personal problems to be aired. I sent messages to kadar politely asking for the reviews I thought did not meet the requirements of a review per your own rules. I didn't really mind that if the reviews in question where removed, mine would go along with them. I understood that would be part of the package.

Instead, he just removed my "reviews" and left the completely person attacks towards an individual intact. I lived with it, I even considered removing the server listing and reposting it to get rid of them. But I didn't, that would be doing a end-around-run against the rules. But when someone posts something like what is quoted above, I have to draw the line. First, it is a bold faced lie, second, it isn't even relevant to the current server status, third, the remark at the end is literally a 100% personal attack and has nothing to do with the server.

Even after I made it public in our game server what was going on, some of the other players decided they would like to do something about it themselves, and instead of removing individual reviews, or asking me about it, or even contacting them, kadar just blantantly removes the entire server listing. Fine, whatever, his tryanny right? No one to watch the watcher? Even every once in a while? Nothing wrong with it, it is literally like I said in my pm, just peek over his shoulder every once in a while and make sure things are handled the way you want them and he hasn't gone to far from your wants. He might be the admin of the lists, but you are the owner of the website. If you want your website to be able to claim it is 100% professional, consulting people about stuff like this should be a concern. Hell, I will even give you an idea you might be able to put in. A review comes in, server owner checks it, is not 100% sure it should be let through, he hits a button in the review listing to place it up for "review by admin". While the review is in this status, it does not appear to anyone except kadar, you, the listing holder, and the person posting the review. Then you can decide on a process or something before it goes back on the review list, or gets deleted. Or better yet, and this would involve less stress for kadar, add something directly under each review for the listing holder to give a comment. If it is good enough for a multi-billion dollar international company like eBay, it should be good enough for you.


Anyway, that is what I have to say to that. If you want to take this further in private, by all means, email me, pm me, anything.

Ciao

P.S. "hopzone" It is pretty obvious from the wording of your post that english is not your best language, If you would care to have someone better with english translate, I have no problem with that either. And as someone pointed out to me after talking with them about this, "he doesnt take action against bot voters but he DOES take action against something ridicilous like this". You might want to look at everything involved in this again.

[Crypticon]

just currious not overly interested in becoming involved with this, but why were my comments deleted from the posts as well? i do not work for the L2R and i followed your rules, but my posts were deleted... i made another thread in reguards to this... but in general something seems very wrong when I tried to correct the user named ph3ared and within moments my post was removed... i was able to repost later... not even sure if that one is still showing either... If there is somethign you guys have against the server we use then let us know, its very simple to use another voting service, and I can make a post on the L2R forums to direct users there... and if its such a big deal simply tell us. You want to users to participate on the site... yet dictate and manipulate information as you see fit... i'd rather hear the good and bad from people who are gamers, not those with a bone to pick, or have some other motivation to be that way. If this site cannot acheive that let me know and I will find an alternative avenue to discuss game servers with other gamers.

Woo(aka Crypticon)

[revengel2]

Well, almost a full day has gone by, hopzone has even logged in, don't know if he read my reply or not, but I will let you know this much. I am not letting this drop. This is a rampant problem with your site listings "service" and (from what I am seeing so far from the way this specific issue has been handled) a problem inherent to the people in charge. I have talked with serveral other server owners that have listings here, and so far they have all agreed, the way you handle blatantly false accusations against servers is completely and totally unprofessional. If the admin of the server breaks your rules, you remove their "reviews" or their servers all together, and don't both to enforce the same rules for the "players" posting the reviews. Looks like a nice double standard going here.


And now i get an email with this:
Your server was banned for one(or more) of the folowing reasons:
- Multiple or bogus Submission
- Other Rules Violation

This is an automate message sent from HopZone.Net . Please do not reply to this message. If you want to speak with us , please try to contact us through HopZone website messenger service

After over 300 hits to this thread, I think this was the last thing you wanted to do. Let the games begin.

[revengel2]

just a fyi for those people that don't know what the rules are for posting a review of a server:


Adding Review Rules:
The review area is an area for players to freely
(within the rules) to express their opinion of the server.

Admins or staff posting in the review area will cause their server to be deleted.

1) No bad words, cursing or swearing.
2) No insults.
3) No spamming.
4) No advertising.
5) No advertising for your server/site on other servers Review area.
6) Review area is not a forum.
Review area is not for server information or news.
Review area is not a question and answer area.
Review area is not a connection or problem solving area.
Review area is not to debate Server Politics.
Review area is not the place to refute someone elses opinion.
Use the servers contact system at their website for the above.
7) ALL REVIEWS FOR SERVERS MUST BE IN ENGLISH.
We are sorry this has to happen, but many players have abused the review area.

These rules apply to the server admin and server staff as well as the players.
(Admin or staff abusing the rules will cause that server to be deleted.)
To make it short and sweet, we want nothing but YOUR LIKE or DISLIKE of the server.
Not your opinion of someone else's opinion.
If you can not post in an adult like manner your post will be removed.
------

Admins Also Note:
Our users are allowed to post both good and bad points of the servers in the Review area.
(Within the rules, of course).
If this is not something a server admin wants, you may not want to list it here.

Thank You !
HopZone.Net Team



so tell me, in this "review" can you find how many of the rule the "player" broke?


WOW after spending 2 hours to download and install the necessary client and "UPDATER" for this server. I just spent the last 2 hours removing all the ADWARE/SPYWARE/TROJANS and DOWNLOADERS it installed.

DO NOT PLAY HERE. I ran a SCAN before I installed this "AUTO UPDATER" and after I noticed my system all MESSED UP, MY SCAN FOUND 270+ INFECTIONS! I DID NOTHING EXCEPT INSTALL THIS SERVERS "AUTO UPDATER" . All I can say is if this server owner is that greedy, about money. I can only imagine how the servers are..


If you want 200+ counts of ADWARE/SPYWARE/DESKTOP HIJACKERS/DOWNLOADERS/TROJANS! PLAY HERE!!

If not go elsewhere.


Thats pathetic howard.... I wonder how old (or young) you are... WOW

L2R for the spyware...


How about this one?
The review area is an area for players to freely (within the rules) to express their opinion of the server.

I stress opinion of the server. Where do you see an opinion of the server? According to his own "review" he never even logged into the server. So pray tell me, how can he give an opinion of a server he never logged into?


Lets move on from that one, how about this one?
2) No insults.

Gee, I see not one, but two insults there. And how to you determine if it is an insult anyway? Something I say to you may insult you, but not insult your brother/father/mother/sister/best friend etc (you get my point). So it is all in the eye of the beholder right?

Well, i am pretty sure most people would be insulted by this:
All I can say is if this server owner is that greedy, about money. I can only imagine how the servers are..
I will leave that one up to the eye of the beholder. But this next one is a blatant insult that should have never gotten past "quality control expert" kadar.
Thats pathetic howard.... I wonder how old (or young) you are... WOW

Well, I see three rule violations right there, all pretty clear cut. However, lets not stop there, lets analyze this "review" to its fullest and apply ALL of the "rules" to it.

Let us say, just for the sake of argument, take this "review" at face value and the person honestly believes that the server was the source of his "infection". Fine let's do that. If that was the case, he would be having connection/install problems right?

6) Review area is not a forum.
Review area is not for server information or news.
Review area is not a question and answer area.
Review area is not a connection or problem solving area.
Review area is not to debate Server Politics.
Review area is not the place to refute someone elses opinion.
Use the servers contact system at their website for the above.

Well, looking at that, I would say this poster broke "rule" number 6 not once, but twice. First by making the post, and second for not using the server listing information to contact the relevant staff members.

now, lets take a good close hard look at what is left after the rules.

These rules apply to the server admin and server staff as well as the players.

So he removes my "reviews" because they break rule number 6 once, but leaves the "players" "review" intact. What happened to "as well as the players"??

now this part is not a hard and fast rule, but it should still carry some meaning as far as removing "reviews".
To make it short and sweet, we want nothing but YOUR LIKE or DISLIKE of the server.


In that entire post, I don't see anywhere he put any kind of like or dislike of the server (how could he, by his own "review" he never logged in!!)

Now for the next part or that same area.
If you can not post in an adult like manner your post will be removed.

I am going to be a bit liberal here and say instead of adult manner, you mean a mature manner. In other words, be objective and not whine or complain like a sniffling little 8 year old that didn't get what he wanted. This "review" is no where near objective. It is full of unfounded (and as far as I can tell, unproven) accusations. Ask yourself, when was the last time you can say you acted that way? Where you 10? 12? maybe even in your teenage years? Would you consider this mature?

Now, after going through all of that, there is a reminding note for server admins:
Admins Also Note:
Our users are allowed to post both good and bad points of the servers in the Review area.
(Within the rules, of course).

And yet again, special attention is paid to making sure the posts will be allowed to remain if they are within the posting rules. Yet this post was allowed to remain. And not only that, but it remained for days. When it was brought to my attention, first thing i did was to email the "admin" of the lists, kadar. I waited a little while, and then decided i could not just let it stay up there unanswered. So i put a very small note up there saying that the list admin should contact me. Within 15 mins of me putting my note up there, it was removed, yet this "review" that has broken so many rules was allowed to remain. After that you know the story.

So ask yourself, why can i find no good server to play on in this list. And now you have your answer.

[CyberMaN]

This is going too far. I expected to see some professionalism on the part of hopzone administration, something which never happened. At times, you know, you should accept your own errors, it is not something bad. Your pride on such matter does not really matter as much as the opinions of your service users. I, personally, clearly see here that the matter should have ended long ago.

The error on the part of revengel2 is that it should have informed the administration for the bug testing before going for it. Just that.

On the other hand, you, not only did not do your JOB, which would be filtering the comments, but you keep on INSISTING that he(revengel2) is wrong. Seriously, I believe your act here was at LEAST childish, not merely unprofessional.

You do not force users to register and post their servers, no. If they do not like your service they should go, you may say at a point. But, since you offer that service and someone registers here, you have the RESPONSIBILITY to ENFORCE the rules YOU wrote! Otherwise, I do not think this service should even exist. If you do not do what you should do, then you are just lazy, immature, and do not deserve to own such service.

If you do something, do it right, do it good. Otherwise do not do it at all. We can CLEARLY see you are wrong here, hopzone, and it is not late to admit it.
All that was asked is that you would ENFORCE the rules YOU created. Was that not simple at all?

I hope both can see your mistakes here, and figure something out.

Kind Regards,
James.